Monday 26 November 2012

Killer Arguments Against LVT, Not (282, 283)

George Osborne stepped up to the plate last month:

282. This brings me onto the Treasury’s role in devising tax policy.

Every time you walk past a beautiful Georgian house and see a wall where a window used to be, you’re witnessing a visible sign of the Treasury’s well thought through tax policies in action.

When the Window tax was introduced in 1696, it was designed to make sure the wealthy paid more in tax. These fine motives were soon undermined by as a new form of avoidance emerged. Simply brick up the window.

Luckily we don’t have to deal with these sorts of issues today. The window tax was hugely unpopular because it was seen as a tax on light and air – and nothing can be more essential than that.


A tax on the rental value of locations is the opposite of a Window Tax. The number of windows can be varied at will by the owner (subject to planning constraints), but the amount of surface area of the earth at any location is fixed (barring some bizarre tectonic event).

The Homeys argue that if we had LVT, then people would tear down their own buildings to avoid it. Apart from the fact they wouldn't (or else why are there any commercial buildings, liable to Business Rates and the closest thing we have to LVT, left standing?), this is about as stupid as arguing that if people have taken out mortgages to buy land and buildings then they will promptly tear down the buildings to try and get their mortgage payments down.

The LVT payments would relate entirely to the value of the location/planning permission and not to the actual buildings thereon in whatever state of repair, in the same way as mortgage repayments relate to the amount of loan taken out at the time of purchase and not anything which happens subsequently.

283. Lloyd George’s famous People’s Budget of 1909 introduced social insurance for the first time, funded by taxes on cars, on petrol, and a new tax on land and property. Though those tempted by a modern version of a property tax should note Lloyd George’s land tax was eventually abandoned when it cost more money to collect than it raised.

That's an outright lie.

It was the House of Lords which put paid to the increases in "rates" (whether Business Rates or Domestic Rates. Agricultural Rates were already on the way out at the time). Both Business Rates and Domestic Rates (or their modern poor relation, Council Tax) have always raised far more revenue than they cost to collect, in fact, collection costs (including compliance, non-payment and deadweight costs) are far, far lower than for any other major taxes.

Seeing as Osborne's best mate has refused to even contemplate the least radical suggestion, which was to simply add new Council Tax bands at the upper end, which would mean more revenue for the same collection costs, I think we know which side he's on.

6 comments:

Scottie said...

Slightly off your topic above but I was discussing LVT on the D2015 facebook group and was given the killer argument

"LVT would disproportionately hit businesses with high relocation costs, whereas (for example) creative industries and financial institutions would have the option to move abroad or towards lower taxed areas."

Any thoughts?

Mark Wadsworth said...

S, that's several KLN's all in one go.

What does "high relocation costs" mean? Why would they be higher if we had LVT?

As a general rule of thumb, under a full-on LVT system (assuming constant tax take), the overall tax burden on businesses (taking VAT, PAYE, corp tax and business rates into account) would go down by about 80% - 90%.

So only one business in a hundred will end up worse off and the only businesses which can possibly end up worse off than now are those who are putting land to woefully inefficient use. The owners of these businesses would be better off shutting down and becoming landlords. That's a win for the economy.

The idea that banks (or creatives) would relocate to reduce their occupation costs is absolutely fanciful. In the City and the West End the rents are very high and it's full of banks and creative businesses. If they minded high occupation costs, they wouldn't be there in the first place.

Why would any business relocate abroad? In order to incur high rents and high taxes?

mombers said...

Interesting how he's been quite happy to introduce several extra income tax bands for households with one person earning between 50k and 60k and one or more children.

Mark Wadsworth said...

Mom, the whole thing is totally weird.

Osborne is happy to hike SDLT on expensive homes; hike the non-dom levy to £50,000 per person; restrict pension relief; penalise families on decent incomes; even have a quasi-Mansion Tax for homes owned by foreign companies; hike VAT, National Insurance; uprated Business Rates under the five year timetable; even increased the bank asset tax slightly.

He will hike just about any taxes, even if some of these are LVT-by-default, just as long as homes aren't revalued for council tax; council tax generally doesn't go up; and there are no extra bands are added.

Bayard said...

"Every time you walk past a beautiful Georgian house and see a wall where a window used to be, you’re witnessing a visible sign of the Treasury’s well thought through tax policies in action."

This is also complete bollocks. 99% of the blank windows on Georgian houses were built that way. They usually had a "window" painted onto them and their function was to balance the facade without putting a window where it wasn't convenient. Unsurprisingly, after the window tax was repealed, people unblocked the windows they had blocked up for the tax.

"That's an outright lie."

Not if it was said in the House of Commons; then it's a terminological inexactitude.

Mark Wadsworth said...

B, I wouldn't put it as high as 99%, I think it's only 98%.

That said, nobody knows how many of the windows which were temporarily bricked up were unbricked up again shortly afterwards, again I suspect somewhere in the region of 100%.

He didn't do this speech in the HoC, it was at "Speaker's House", wherever that is. But it's still an outright lie. Like all KLNs, it is an outright lie.