From the BBC:
The Home Office is drawing up contingency plans to cope with a possible large increase in immigration from Greece if the euro collapses. Home Secretary Theresa May told the Daily Telegraph "work is ongoing"and "trends" were being examined to see whether immigration was rising from countries with stricken economies.
EU nationals are largely entitled to work anywhere in the single market. If the single currency breaks up, people looking for work abroad may see Britain as an attractive alternative as it is a non-eurozone country.
Asked whether emergency immigration controls were being considered, Mrs May explained that the government's main concerns were providing new arrivals with accommodation and National Insurance number cards and ensuring that there was a sufficient supply of leaflets in Greek and Spanish explaining their entitlements under the UK welfare system.
While the coin is palmed
3 hours ago
20 comments:
Not, perhaps, in the way you mean, but the final one of those would be a jolly good idea. Or, even better, put them up in Greece and Spain.
(I'm assuming you know that EU nationals aren't eligible for out-of-work benefits until they've been working in the UK for over a year?)
I keep seeing that claim john B. Yet the Direct Gov own website says anyone can claim job seekers if they are looking for work.
Eligibility
Eligibility for these benefits will depend on your immigration status and if you are looking for employment and can apply for benefits in the same way as a UK national.
Watch out for people who are already illegals in Greece, Spain etc trying to blag their way into the UK and saying they lost their papers in the uproar. I'm not against Greeks or Spaniards coming here - God knows we have a venerable tradition of putting up people who are fleeing oppression. But we will need to see our own illegals getting moved out to make space - we're full up.
The final paragraph where "..Mrs May explained ... the government's main concerns..." indicates Cast-Iron Dave's government has moved on from the standard EU head-in-the-sand policies to the more EU-aristocrat sang-froid head-up-arse approach of continually doubling-down with other peoples' money/lives.
Come on Mark, you should know that NI cards aren't issued any more.
@JD
The UK is far from "full up", unless you mean with landowners/HO-ists. Of course, giving 5 million Greeks NI numbers would mean they all have to pay income tax, and rents would shoot through the roof.
Single Acts of Tyranny claims that cutting business rates will improve businesses so I posted that HMRC report that shows all benefits accrue to landlords.
http://www.countingcats.com/?p=12402
This is all getting a bit heated so I'm keeping out of it.
RA, good work. I tried to leave a comment over at CC but it never works for me, something wrong with the internet.
I keep seeing that claim john B. Yet the Direct Gov own website says anyone can claim job seekers if they are looking for work.
Bill's right.
Personally I'd kick out anyone who's arrived from the EU since the 2004 round of enlargment. A certain amount of free movement between the wealthier European nations I'm fine with, but what we've been subjected to amounts to outright colonisation (something Labour lied through their teeth about). No more Polish delicatessens please, if you want to live a traditional Polish life then go back to Eastern Europe.
CD, that's a bit harsh. I quite like Polish delicatessen.
I wonder what CD would do about Balham London, where there' been lots of Poles since WW2.
Personally I think Polish immigration has been the only successful recent wave of immigration.
The DirectGov link doesn't prove what you think it proves.
In real life, benefits are available:
1) to workers who've been employed for more than 12 months; or
2) to people who pass the Habitual Residence Test.
The HRT is complicated, but someone without significant ties to the UK rocking up in the hope of claiming benefits will not generally pass it.
More generally: I can see why people are pissed off about wholesale unskilled migration from third-world villages; I can't for the life of me see how anyone could object to the Poles. Well, unless they were a massive bigot I spose. Or hated sausages.
"Well, unless they were a massive bigot I spose. Or hated sausages."
Or were a lazy London cowboy builder whose ability to rip customers off has been seriously curtailed by the advent of honest and hardworking competition.
In response to the "bigotry" accusations, well yes I am quite bigoted on this issue but I tend to spread my bigotry around evenly. I object to the British colonisation of the Valencian Community in Spain for example, so would sympathise with the Spanish authorities if they repatraited the British back to their homeland en masse. Trying to set up a mini England in Spain is incredibly insensitive and the Spanish shouldn't be brow beaten into accepting it.
As we were lied to about the potential immigration risks associated with the accession of Eastern Europe I believe that all subsequent migration was unlawful and against the interests of the British public. If we want to reverse that terrible decision and take the UK back for the sole use of the British that's our prerogative. There is a tie in with Georgism here so I'm not exactly straying off message.
Re: sausages, I think I'll stick with Cumberland thanks. But we can always import Polish delicacies if the British get the taste for them. :)
Is it not the case the EU citizens can claim benefits from their own country whilst looking for work? Same for all EU people.
I welcome the Poles. And the Romanians. Haven't seen a UK citizen farm labouring for about 5 years now.
They are very hardworking. Reliable, cheerful and uncomplaining.
But we all know that the money they earn is mostly sent outside of the UK.
And whilst the Poles are earning minimum wage a UK national is getting unemployment benefit. The tax the Poles pay doesn't even cover their own use of UK resources, if they have a family, or become sick. Never mind paying out JSA to someone else to sit at home.
Unskilled migration was a stupid idea. It cannot possibly make economic sense for the government, even if it does for employers.
> But we all know that the money they earn is mostly sent outside of the UK.
A silly argument as sending pounds abroad means someone needs to do something to trade them back into zloty's thus increasing trade.
Sarton Bander said...
> But we all know that the money they earn is mostly sent outside of the UK.
A silly argument as sending pounds abroad means someone needs to do something to trade them back into zloty's thus increasing trade.
I don't follow you?
It costs around £10.00 to send £500 to Poland.
So someone, probably Moneygram or western union have earned £10.
The UK office conducting that business has earned..what? £2.00? Maybe £3.00.
So for £500 earned in the UK, £10.00 is actually spent here.
Would this happen if it was a UK resident earning the money here?
No. The Chancellor is £100 ish out on VAT alone.
If a cafe worker earns £7 for a 40 hr week that's £14,560.
The tax on that is a TOTAL, incl employers N.I., of £3,330
JSA for someone over 25 years old, for a year, is £3403.
So, assuming a migrant worker never uses subsidised transport, attends a school or a doctors, or has any form of hospital care, or needs the police or emergency services the tax they pay is just enough to keep an under 24 year old on the dole.
Of course the worker will pay more tax in VAT and possibly council tax, and fuel duty and alcohol taxes and maybe even a TV licence.
But you can see how marginal the gain is to import unskilled labour to do low paid jobs.
Where the foreign workers have a family, they are a cost to the state in education and healthcare.
That this is true of almost all low paid UK workers is irrelevant.
A UK worker, previously unemployed, performing the role of a migrant worker is now no longer claiming the £3k of unemployment allowance AND is contributing an additional £3k to the treasury.
A £6k net gain for Mr Osborne.
Immigration at skilled level make a net contribution, regardless of sending money abroad, because of the higher taxation they pay.
I should just repeat as a someone involved in retail there has been an huge benefit to the business of incoming workers. But that benefit is to me.
I'm not so sure its a benefit to you.
"I should just repeat as a someone involved in retail there has been an huge benefit to the business of incoming workers. But that benefit is to me.
I'm not so sure its a benefit to you."
Look at it the other way round: If the cheerful, hardworking foreigners were expelled and their places taken by grumpy, workshy natives, it would be a huge disaster for you and other employers, but not much of a benefit to society as a whole and definitely no benefit to the economy. In fact, the economy is better off paying the workshy to do nothing, than forcing them to work and having them cock things up deliberately, stop other people working and cause trouble. After all, there's very little point sacking a bolshie "worker" if the only choice as a replacement is another of the same type.
The comment that the "UK is far from full up" is interesting.
Most people would say that "full up" occurs when a place feels overcrowded. Many English people think this has already happened.
Other people would say that a country is only full when there are no more places to put high rise flats. People who take this attitude would fill every part of the world with people. But they would hit a limit somewhere, eventually there would be no air to breathe and no food to eat.
70 million people is "full up" in this second sense. It is unsustainable. Those who read more widely than immigration and party politics may have noticed that there are some serious problems coming our way as a result of overpopulation. If these problems materialise and we have even our current population then millions will die. See Global warming - what will change and Limits to Growth - of course, you can deny these warnings, after all they are only the ravings of scientists who have spent their lives studying these subjects.
J "People who take this attitude would fill every part of the world with people."
That is one of the stupidest generalisations and prejudices I have ever heard. There's probably not much point debating with you.
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